The Anatomy of Disruption: Brighton's Paradigm Shift and Premier League Friction

This is The Guardian. Hello and welcome to The Guardian football week. Brighton Hammer asked not the AMEX. It was 3. It could have been 6. Two great strikes on a free header at a corner that Gunners couldn't cope with the home side's intensity. They were absolutely brilliant. Manchester City then the only side in the 92 with a 100% record. Not even a Broby-Broby-Broby on the score sheet enough to get Sunderland a point. Spurs a bottom of the league on, man. They were the better side for a while, but then realised they hadn't scored. And from there it was straight forward for Aston Villa, a big win for Unai Emery. Michael Carrick's Man United crisis continues a hilarious own goal. Canceled out by a late deflected equaliser against a burnt Leno in Spider-Fullam. In things that would have been a surprise 20 years ago, but now aren't Brentford Batterchelsie. Hull's unbeaten start ends at Newcastle. Coventry get the first goal and first point of the season. Tieno Barry wins one for Everton. Iriola has a nice if boring trip back to Bournemouth and Leeds-Neil Palace-Neil will get very little attention. All that plus your questions and that's the day's Guardian football week, Cleeb. On the panel today, Barry Glen-Delling, hello. Hi, Max. Good morning, well, I'm Win. Hello, Max. Welcome. Lars Sivitzen. Hello, Max. Let's begin at the amics. Then Brighton 3, Arsenal, Neil, Brighton were absolutely brilliant. Like I said, in the intro, Lars could have been 506. How did they do that? By being very good at football, no, but they went into this. Having been the best attacking team in the league this season. I know it's a small sample size, but they were the top scoring team going into it. And again, should we look at XG after four games? Maybe not, but if we want to, they had the highest XG produced as well. So they are a legit, tremendous attacking team. And it's possible that Arsenal, you know, they've had a few away games on the bounce now. I mean, they played away to Napoli, away to Sunderland, away to tipswitch. There's some significant globe trotting there, you know. They had to go tipswitch, as Will will tell you, it's a tough trip. Maybe there was a bit of that. I can't expect it was complacency. I think I'd had to smart enough to warn them in advance that this is going to be tough, but I just think they looked a little bit sort of off it on the day. And that does happen, even to very good teams, it seems. And I kind of think, like, as a spurs fan, I'm going to take my punishment later in the show. But, like, I think it's quite good for the league that this happened, because there was this sort of sense that, oh, no, Arsenal, I'm just going to walk this, because they're very good and very complete and very fabulous. And all the challenges look a bit bad. But turns out they are, they are fallible, as are the rest of us. Yeah. And Barry, Brian, we're so brave in this game. Yeah, it was their 125th anniversary. They had those lovely, Zuri, Blue, vintage shirts on. And I would be surprised, Brighton fans are welcome to discreet me, but I'm really surprised Brighton have played better at any point in the last 125 years of their existence. I was so impressed with their approach to the game, rather than let Arsenal try and impose their game on Brighton, they imposed theirs on Arsenal and Arsenal just couldn't cope with it. They attacked high up the pitch, their ferocity of their press, Arsenal just couldn't deal with it. When they scored their opening goal, they had Arsenal penned back into their final third for quite some time before Pascal Gross scored that brilliant goal. I think he's now in officially, is it Lee Karsley territory? He's being so underrated, he's actually not underrated anymore, because people are wise and up to the fact he's just a brilliant midfielder. He absolutely bustled Trafford against Manchester United during the week. It was brilliant here again. One of several Brighton players who was outstanding, the new centre-half, Fuskevich, who they got in from Spurs, just his maturity of his game for someone so young, Diego Gomez, DeKyper, Pasco Strike, all really good. Bart for Brogdon made the two saves that were asked of him with a minimum of fuss. And Arsenal were really bad, they got to panspull it down here, but Brighton made them be bad if you know what I mean. They just couldn't cope with Brighton. Yeah, I wonder, Will, I was saying this to Barry yesterday, but I'm not a big one for combined elevenths. But when you look at that starting line up for Brighton, you go, I don't know how many of those guys are getting in the Arsenal team. Now, I don't know if that is me just being sort of blind to top six buyers and knowing more about the Arsenal players, or it is just a sign that Herzler is a brilliant manager, and it is teams that win football matches and not individual. You look back to the game against Manchester United, where they said, you know, we're losing 2-0 after 10 minutes, but we were confident we could come back. And that's a lot of changes in the Brighton squad, but that quality that they invest in throughout, you know, you can look at, say, Man United later, paying £50 million for people like Andrés Santos and £40 million for Zürksey, but Brighton have such great recruitment with people like Castulis, Cameron Dresfer, you know, a quarter of the price almost. They've carefully backed up with the coaches. You know, you go through from Potter to Serbia to Herzler now, and that team spirit, everyone has their role within it, and they know how to perform it, and they're doing it. Without the intensity that strategy is a complete failure, it won't happen. It won't, you know, on days like Saturday against Arsenal, Arsenal, I mean, I won't say we didn't fancy it, but they knew that they couldn't match that intensity for whatever reason. I think in previous, maybe last season, Arsenal might have ground something out, but they'll be really disappointed that they couldn't cope with a set of pieces, which is one big problem, one thing they sort of set themselves up on. But it's just this club in harmony that, you know, you lose Van Hecker, you've signed a replacement from Tottenham, and Van Hecker then looks a bit like a car horse at times at Spurs. It's just a very well-run football club with the same strategy and knowing that, you know, we lose this player or we want to improve this player, these are the attributes we need, and then convincing them that their model will get them up the Premier League, and maybe in previous seasons, you'll say, getting up the Premier League means being sold for a decent amount of cash. But if you look at the sort of performances that are put in at the moment, they'll say, we'll get you up the Premier League by ourselves. We've used to stay in here because, you know, we're in Europe. We've been honest to a lot of those teams that are in and around the top six. You can be challenged this time round, and it'll be interesting to see, I think it'll be very difficult, but Brighton at the moment, do have that sort of tipping point it feels like where they've got the right balance when it comes to players and coaches, and whether they can do it in Europe and in the Premier League over, of course, these will be fascinating to watch. Yeah, and actually, that's the interesting thing about Brighton analysis. We've sort of seen it in previous years that they can put in performances like this, but they just can't back it up. Now, I know we have a six-month international break, so we'll have all forgotten about this. And a few of their players may have died of old age by the time we come around to playing again, but it will be really interesting to see if they can be consistently this good. Doesn't mean they win every game, but just consistently do this, and not have that run at someone in the season where they just don't win in 11, and no one really notices, and then they finish eight or nine. So, I was going to back you up there a bit, Max, and say, I don't think it's top six bias to say that a combined Brighton arsenal would be mostly, if not all arsenal, because Arsenal won the league last season, and Brighton finished eighth. So, there's not a completely unrealistic point of view to have, and it is one of the joys of being these sort of smaller mid-table clubs is that they had a run where they won one in 13 last season, and nobody got fired. Like, the world didn't explode. Things didn't come tumbling down. You are kind of left alone to work. I think that makes it a much easier place for a good coach to work, and I think you make it an easier place for some of these players to bring in. Like, obviously, this season's great finds would appear to be costueless and chema and dress, and Yalquie as well, is just come, who they signed a little while ago from a Swedish team. These guys, I'm sure they've used their incredibly clever scouts, and stats and all the stuff they do, but Spurs could do that. Man, you know, I could could do that, and if you throw them into those teams, you're just not going to get the same results, and there's some of that you have to give credit to the coaching staff as well, and the culture they've built around the club. I know Will said it already, but as we always end up talking about the stats and the numbers, and the brain's trust set bright. But what we've seen consistently throughout the years is that when people try to sign the players and put them in different contexts, they're not always that good. In the case of Chelsea, you can try to sign all their directors, and maybe even the coach, and you can put them in a different context, and it's not necessarily that good. So it is about creating a club, about creating a community where everyone works and pulls in the same direction, and crucially, maybe there's slightly less expectations, and a slightly less harsh spotlight than you see other places, and then you get the sort of magic alchemy of this sort of performance, and I just want to add as well, it's uncharacteristically sloppy from Arsenal, and I thought it was going to summed up by the Gross goal, which is a great strike, like obviously take nothing away from Pascal Gross. Pascal Gross have the ball just on the edge of the box, and the defenders are all back enough. Now it's like, come on guys, this is Pascal Gross, like you know, this is a guy who is not famously, he's not the fastest, he's not a big dribbler, he's not going to immediately zoom past you, but you can't give him time to pick a pass or shoot, because he's really, really accurate, a striker of the ball, and he's got the ball on the edge of the box, and everyone's backing off, and I was like, come on, you do like the amount of prep that goes into these games, the amount of like scouting they do and analysis they do, presumably they will have been told that the number 10 for Brighton is a guy who can't really run, but is an amazingly accurate striker of the ball. So maybe don't give him a ton of space on the edge of the box to shoot, but that's the kind of thing that Arsenal, I just feel like they don't usually do, like they get this, that's all right, usually. So this just, I mean, it's just a bad day at the office for them. That's the question is in a barrier, it's sort of unanswerable until they play the next five games, but you know, they gave Gross space, they gave Castula's space, the third goal like Andrews is sort of unchallenged at a corner, which is so unlike Arsenal, and I suppose that, you know, is this a one-off or is this Arsenal now for the rest of time, and they've had their, you know, they've had their joy, and actually they'll just be, you know, run off the park until, you know, 2035. So Sondland tried it, Villa tried it, neither more good enough to pull it off, Brighton were, but Sondland and Villa both have Arsenal really good game. So they're not going to have it all the wrong way, and other coaches are going to look up up Brighton to them, and identify these weaknesses and try to exploit them. So maybe things are going to get harder for them, and it's up to Arterto to make sure that they're able to deal with parties coming their way after other coaches see this Brighton performance, and how bad are some worrying the face of this onslaught? Declan was lucky to stay on the pitch, as they walked off the pitch will, or is a yellow about right for kicking someone not that hard, but completely off the ball. What's the, what's the, how hard do you have to kick someone? I thought it was someone else who might have got a sense off, I don't know why. If he'd played for Ireland, do you think he'd be just declared for Ireland? Yeah, that had gone straight off at last time. I mean he did briefly, but then he changed his mind. I thought it was those petulant things, when they're absolutely needless, don't even anyone around him, I thought it was probably quite lucky to stay on. A bit of a silly thing to do for that point when he'd done and dusted, and it was just an admittance of defeat on every level, wasn't it? It was quite symbolic of the whole game, that would be an absolutely done here. It is so Sunday League of, you know, you're losing, so you might as well, you played those games where someone's gone, well, I might as well kick someone, I remember playing one team where their play got a yellow, and then he had to sub himself off, because as he went off the pitch, he said, I just can't afford to pay for a red card. Otherwise, I'd do you all. If Folden's getting sent off, rice has to go as well, or else give them both a yellow. And if someone did that to an Arsenal player, Christ, you'd never hear the end of it, you know. Man City 5, Sondland 3, Kitsers, did Max enjoy seeing Brobi, Brobi on the score sheet. Well, of course I did, but Man City won the game, Enzo Meresco running the sixth manager to start their reign with wins in their first five games, Antulotti, Mauritius Sarri, Pep, Solshar, and Craig Shakespeare, the other ones. What a bonkers game, Barry, this was. It was a brilliant game. It was chaotic, it was there, strewn, it was goals galore, all the good goals, a couple of really scruffy ones. I think you could take any 15 minutes of this game, and it would be better than the other three games played on Sunday combined. I thoroughly enjoyed it, didn't enjoy the result, obviously, and it's got to see your team score three goals against Man City and come away with nothing, but it was a terrific game. Sondland caused City a load of problems. They just couldn't shake them off. It was like watching a marathon, the closing stages where some guy, he just cannot shake off the guy who's on his shoulder, and my only minor gripe is agree too. There is a case to be made that Sondland should have had a penalty for. What I thought was quite deliberate, Elliot Anderson, handball, but when he was contesting a 50-50 with Enzel the Faye, but the ball hit Enzel's hand, so fair enough, not going to win you about it. But I thought Sondland were really good, but some of their defending was slapstick in the extreme. I think it was the goal that when City went four or two up, there was a through ball and two Sondland defenders went to clear it, and just succeeded in sending it some annuals away, and he slapped it home. But it was a terrific game of up all, really entertaining, and especially compared to the other three yesterday afternoon. Yeah, and actually, well, the great fun is, as Barry alluded to, is every time City scored, then Sondland just scored. It was like, okay, now the game settled, and even when they went four or two and Sondland got it back to four or three, I guess the big news in terms of a title race is that City are now top, and they only seem to want every game, which I think of the community shield, no one would believe it. But I don't know. I left watching this feeling as much that this is about how good Sondland are, as well as how impressive this start has been for Maresque. Well, this is it, I mean, in terms of Sondland, such mental strength against City that has won its opening four games, look really comprehensive in some of them, and that you think you can see is when you look around, you go, well, the scored one, Harlan's not got one yet, and you know, you've got to die, all these, you've seen teams fold in similar circumstances, but they knew they had a chance. I think DS, one of his problems is really physical players, I don't think he doesn't enjoy that battle as much as he should. For City, it's a good sign that you're scoring. I think it's interesting to go from the Derby last week to this, where, you know, of course, it pretty much no problems, apart from the in-bomber chance, and you know, with 10 men coped really well, whereas this time, quite open at times, difficult challenges at the back, and panic as well, which we've seen in recent years, which I think with Anderson and Enzo, maybe in the big games, you might end up with Anderson, Enzo Fernandez, and Boardy playing, just to give a bit more stability in there, and have Fernandez as the sort of player for the forward. In terms of the confidence levels and the spark that Mereska's managed to instill, and you can see it's not a sort of quadiorl attribute at there are. You see every reason why he wanted Fernandez, you can see why City spent so much time on Anderson, you can see the role he's got Cherokee, and that's true specifically in the last two games that he didn't come in on against United, and what in die gives, and a really good dock who's back. And so he stamps his mark. Everyone looks happy. There was always, you know, no business around when you're going to replace someone like Pep, and I think maybe with the intensity of the Pep works with, I think, Mereska has a little bit more like relief to him at times, so I'm hoping players would appreciate that, which might also, unfortunately, explain the sort of lapses at the weekend, and some of the lapses against Porto, but I think over time that ribbon will sort of balance itself out, and the players know what they're doing a bit more, but yeah, really good times for City and say, Sunderland, it was always going to be a tricky second season, and I know in the league position-wise, it doesn't look ideal at the moment, but they've shown that actually they are building on it, they're not panicking, you know, they're going to have enough even with again, another team in Europe playing twice a week will be quite difficult, but yeah, good signs are both teams, and, you know, if City do consider giving Harland a bit of a rest next summer, maybe Brian Bob is the answer. Given what we know about Mereska, it is only Pep that would mean Mereska is like relief, isn't it? You know, it's not Harry Red now, like I'm wondering in really an erasing bow, said, off you go, Lads. I mean, there were so many moments in this game, Lars, and actually we mentioned Remedios, he made a brilliant goal like clearance, that he's sort of almost going on goal, but four, three, didn't he? And Robbie, like, his hold up play, I think it's for the second goal to win the free kick. It's like, it's almost like at the end, he's like that kid at school who was voice broke, who was, it's James Swilbrick for me, who in rugby would just carry the whole opposition team over the line. He's like holding so many men off to win that free kick. But anyway, Lars, I don't know what your big takeaway for. No, it's, it's gauriously old school, isn't it? Like, I've, it's the English football used to be. It used to have a big number nine, who was very tall and had very sharp elbows, and you'd hiked the ball up to him, and he would just kind of batter everyone and just kind of get it on the control, and this is how you move the ball off the field. It's a real throwback. I was just going to want to back up what Will was saying. Like, there's a glorious lack of control to the city. Reflected just in the fact that I was looking at the last sort of proper super vintage gauriolisies, and I would argue was 2018, 2019, when they got what 98 points. They were averaging 6.3 shots against in this and this season. In the travel season, they were averaging 7.7 shots against. So far this year, they've averaged 11.8 shots against. There's almost twice as many shots against them, because they're just not controlling the game with possession in the same way. It's so open. Like, Will touched on it already. There is a risk, I think, that Mariska just decides. This is too chaotic. I need another central midfielder in there. But for now, he is going with the two midfielders and the four attackers. And it is tremendous. I know the city has rarely been the neutral's favorites in any kind of context. But they are really fun to watch at the moment. Partially, because they're not good at controlling. They came. They can't do it. But they can hurt you in so many ways going forward. They're tremendous viewing currently on the pitch. The thought of city buying Brobby, and then you see off Harland for 70 minutes, and then they bring Brian Brobion. I think Brobby is what Arsenal want, victory of the Ocaras to be. He holds the ball up well. He's strong. He wins three kicks. But he's got that nice little bit of finesse as well. First goal was lovely. I don't know if he want to quiz, but he's the fifth player to score a Premier League Patrick and finish on the blues inside. Can you name the other four? One of whom did it twice? In my mind, I can see Jermaine DeFoe. No. I was a great guest. Jermaine DeFoe has scored, I think, two Patrick's, but been on the winning side, both of them. Okay. One of the minutes to play for Cambridge United. Dion. Yes, Dion Dublin. Okay. Yeah, okay. This is tricky. Player who did it twice, I've got to say he didn't have a great pandemic. I was getting mad at this year. That's it. Correct. Okay. I was still my favourite player of all time, nonetheless. Okay. Dion, let's hear. Rock Santa Cruz and White York. Correct. I mean, we would have been here for quite a long time if you'd waited for us to say Rock a Santa Cruz. Anyway, that will do for part two. Well, that's Rowling Harlan, by the way, first scoring against all 25 sides he's played against in the Premier League. He's quite good, isn't he? And I'll do for part one, part two. Sadly, we'll begin at the Tottenham Hot Spurs stadium. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Tottenham 2, Aston Villa 3, Spurs are bottom of the league. This defeat means they're clips they've worst ever start to the season, 0809. So my questions, Lars, are, why are Spurs not good? Are they not good? Would you take 17th now? A hat trick of 17. I mean, would be, would be quite something. I think we're going to be here for a long time if we're going to go through the whole thing. Yeah. My biggest concern right now, let's start at my biggest concern. Which is that you can put in all the caveats and say, weird, truncated preseason, a lot of new players were brought in. He's not had the chance to put many of them on the pitch at the same time. All this stuff we've heard so far. You can also say they're positives against Liverpool. And they're positives here as well, until they crumbled completely when they conceded. But there's enough little signs that this might get better. That normally I would just say you just handed a five-year contract to a guy. You've just signed a bunch of players. You need to give it time. Can Roberto Deserbie go through this sort of period of adversity without freaking out and starting to set fire to things? Because I've seen we've, I think we've started to see some like really sort of little petulant things from him. His sort of weird quotes about Rachel is some the sort of hole I'd be the best manager in Italy. He is responding in a slightly petulant way to some things. Because the weird thing about adversity is that adversity, the nature of adversity often calls you to behave in a way that makes it hard to come out of the period of adversity. Like if things going wrong, calls you to behave badly and then it becomes hard to make them go right. So I'm slightly worried about him and how he is handling this. I think there are wider concerns about the way they're trying to play. Like currently there are very few teams in the Premier League who are playing this sort of possession type of thing. I mean not even City, really, in the same way they were. Because teams have gotten really good at being compact. They've gotten really good at pressing at the right moments. They've gotten really good at stopping people building up through the middle. I do worry a little bit that Deserbie is kind of fighting the last war here with the way he wants them to play. And I worry about where the goals are supposed to come from. Because you've not really got a proper striker there unless Solanki finds something and you've spent a lot of money. You've overpaid for a lot of people. Not many of whom have much of a goal record. So there are many big concerns. But my biggest concern really is where the Deserbie can kind of get through this period without going a little bit merino and just start setting fire to things. I mean that aside, it's all Rosie, isn't it? The thing is, Barry, like in isolation they were good. Like for 40 minutes, they were by far the better team. I thought Villa were pretty bad for 40 minutes. So he didn't take much to be the better team. They created chances. Deserbie made a few good saves. One great save from Archie Gray. So you sort of look at that and go, it could have gone either way. But I feel we say that a lot about Ton. Yeah, if you look at quite a few of the games in isolation, not knowing their recent history, you'd go, no, they're all right. It's just not taking their chances. But it is definitely a pattern. There's some alarming stats. As far as a witness in 48 games in all competitions after conceding first. That's shocking. I think that is a shocking statistic. And it shows a complete lack of fight, backbone, courage, whatever you want to do. And accusing players and not having courage is it's not good. It's not an accusation you should make likely. I think Gary Neville made the same one about Manchester United yesterday, maybe. And Villa have won more domestic league, FA Cup, Carabao Cup matches at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in the past year than Tottenham have. That's another quite amusing stat. They are capable of playing well. They could have easily been two, three, maybe four, up and half time. But they weren't. They were goled down. And once they went to goled down, you kind of had a fair idea. The match was only going to end one way. And they got two goals at the end to take the bear look off their side of the scoreboard. But three, two, I think it flatters them. They were well beaten in the end. Yeah. But indeed it's gone. It's absolutely sensational. It's worth saying. And Nicholas Jackson will. It was really good in this game. And you know, he's got a lot of stick at Chelsea. Trying to compare what he gave to Villa that Solanke didn't really give to Spurs. I was really impressed with him. Yeah, and lovely, lovely touch to set up his, his goal. But his running is movement. The energy, you know, he spoke afterwards about really wanting to play for Emory, which has felt like a little dig. The way he had to deal with it, Chelsea, maybe. But he has all those attributes. He has the skill, which he proved with the touch. He has the movement, which he's shown. And he has the desire. And, you know, he's actually still very young, you know, for a striker. And those things, he can combine them on a regular basis. And he's going to be an asset. And it sort of proves why Villa really wanted, you know, he was number one target. Why Watkins was, you know, maybe not 100% happy to sell him. But, you know, they did it. And I don't know which goal it was, but Emory celebrated by punching the bag of balls next to the dugout, which I thought was a lovely touch. Because I read, just taking his anger out on the footballs for the six, for this success. But you actually look at the XG. Which I'm sure we've all been waiting for. As the Spurses was a higher than Villas, which probably shows how probable the Jackson goal and Buen Deer goals work. Instead of him, Manzambi taps it in from a yard. It was 1.16. Whereas I put Manzambis down as about a good one. What did you put it in? It showed, you know, Savio Savino as I knew him as a city fan. Yeah, he's scoring record is terrible. It sort of came to the fore, sort of constantly and lucky. But, you know, for Villa, you'd, you know, say, mentioned replacing Watkins, replacing Martin as after a good-lulled stint in that Suzuki looked, you know, arguably better at times. You know, he's got the same qualities with distribution as well. So, you know, really good signing. It's the show that they've had a better subordinate than a lot of people thought. Yeah. But, yeah, I think with the big break, Deserby might start off on Monday thinking, well, if we just move James Madison, sort of slightly into a different role, you know, that might solve our problems, but after three weeks, it might end up with him in net. Do you know what Dan was talking about as a Suzuki's distribution and how good it was? And then for about 20 minutes, he just kept booting out of play. And I just found that utterly hilarious. And then he got his, you know, range. Yeah, actually, his distribution was brilliant. Just one more last on, on Tottenham, which is they now have so many players that are sort of, I don't know who's better than who. And so, what you have is this issue where Fernandez plays badly. And so Gallagher will come in. And he doesn't have a great game. So, Tonali comes in. And then it's like, well, nobody gets a run. And I was thinking about like, with Everton, Tiono Barry, will play, right? And so, he will play. And so, like, he can have good games and bad games, but you actually have the chance, you have the opportunity to get good even if you don't play well. Whereas when you have so many players who've spent loads of money on these people, there can be the curse of the squad depth. But especially when you have guys who've been, who've had injuries in the summer, who haven't been 100% fit, haven't completely part of the preseason, because of when they arrived or whatever. So, I do definitely think that Deserabee probably needs the settle on something close to the 11 that he wants and give that team some time together to try to gel. I think that's a very fair observation. I do think Ashton Villa went the first five games last season without winning and they ended up finishing fourth. Like, it can still be done. But the difference is they had a coach who had a lot of credit in the bank and who has a proven record of doing things and who nobody panic. They all just kind of, Unai Emery will figure this out and I'm not sure anyone feels that way about Deserabee and I don't know that. I mean, Deserabee has a lot of money in the bank. And he will have more still if they have the virus and that'll be a phenomenally expensive undertaking for the Tottenham. You've given him that kind of contract. You have certainly looks like from the outside, given him quite a lot of say over the transfers this summer. Maybe more say than a head coach should have. You kind of just have to let him cook. But then that necessitates him behaving in a way that doesn't blow everything up. And I think you're completely right, Max. I think you do need to settle on a couple of guys who like, this is what I want my 11 to look at and you need to give them some time. But as I just saw a couple of weeks ago, he said, Deserabee, unfortunately, you can buy mentality in the transfer market. I feel like you can. Like, it's entirely possible to look at the players you're bringing in and see what kind of guys are there. You speak like what kind of like what kind of, and there is a real lack of leadership, I think in this group now. That's why you see them crumble quite so often. But also, I think three, three, four hundred million in the window, make sure you're bringing people who are not like that. Sure. But then you bring in someone, Andy Robertson, who had just so much mentality at Liverpool and then it all disappeared. Let's go to Craven Cottage, a full of my Manchester United one. Barry, a lot to enjoy about the LeSandre Martinez aren't goal. There was indeed, and it was, there was a more chance to enjoy in this game. It was pretty bad. It was interesting, actually, because my Gary Neville went off on a rent during the game saying it was the worst he'd seen, Man United play, you know, the 15 minutes after half time, since he started supporting them as a five-year-old. I would say it wasn't even the worst they'd played since Wednesday, but I think the comments were put to Carrick afterwards, and he seemed quite surprised and talked up his players. And I think watching the game live, it was not good. And it was played at a very pedestrian pace, but then watching this morning, I watched the highlights, package or match of the day, or highlights in vertical commas. And you could make a case that United did okay from that five or six minutes, worse of footage, whatever it was, but watching the game in full time is awful. And but that goal was hilarious. It was a... Calvin Bassie was quicker to a ball out from defense than Matthias Kooner. He advanced shot. Laman's saved the ball, and it rebounded in off. Martinez's standing leg. I think Laman's could have saved it, by a reckon, but it hadn't occurred to me at the time, but Joel Harrepoin today, he wasn't sure if it was a back pass or not. So he tried to hoof it off the line instead of just catching it. And that's what's different, but yeah, he has to catch it. He has to catch that. But yeah, Joel Harrepoin, Joel Harrepoin, he thought it might be a back pass, so therefore he couldn't catch it, but I suppose catching it and conceding what is an indirect free kick, which we all love to see in the penalty area, is better than conceding a goal. But he clearly thought he would be able to kick it clear and didn't got his foot stuck in the turf. Yeah, it's interesting point you make about, watching the whole game and watching the highlight, because I watched the highlights to begin with, and then I sort of read all the reports, so I went back and watched a bit more of it, and it did change, completely changed my view, because like Bert Leno will had a really good game. So Manu Knight really created, like they forced some good saves, lots of shots from outside the box, but they're still shots, aren't they? And Leno was great, they hit the woodwork twice, Manchester United. So you could go, look, we were, but we had really had chances, game, and full of work good as well, like it's just because they haven't won yet, their season still haven't, it's not a gimmie this game. But when you do strip it back, it is like, what is, what's happening here at Manchester United? This is the problem, that there are moments, and when you spend so much on attacking players, you're going to have those moments, and couldn't you fund as, in way more and things like that. But the Darby, terrible, bright enough to the opening ten minutes, terrible. And then they say, they played in moments at Fulham, and they had some really good times, but it never looked. It's looked quite disjointed for a lot of the season, I think that from four, really don't know each of the yet and things like that. And so it's over the length of those games, it's not impressive. There was a bad spells against dipswitch. Couldn't you have said that Fulham wanted it more? Basically, they put in more, they had a greater energy, and Karek had to put that one down as well. And it is basics. I mean, you look at the Spurs performance, and it's actually quite a decent team form at times, a lot of energy. United, it does seem quite pedestrian. And if you didn't get a reaction, really from the Darby, didn't get a reaction from the Brighton demise, and they are creating chances, which is fine. They don't have a striker to finish them, and they had to bring on Zerkecy on Sunday, which is a admittance of defeat on every level. I mean, the poor bloke, he's not a number nine for starters, and he's not a top six player by a long distance. Against a hole at the start of the season, he rather had her own McGuire up top. And I think United's problems is the squads not deep enough. I mean, there's quite an obvious admittance of that. You have people like André Saint, also 50 million quid. You know, we're just struggling to get a kick, and you think, well, maybe that money probably could be better spelled out, spent elsewhere. And I appreciate Carrick's under pressure for various reasons, but I think you know, I did right at the weekend, that Jason Wilcox, you know, really needs to be screwed tonight soon. Him and Carrick are relying a lot on belay but coming into that midfield, I know he was on the bench. Yes, they're making a difference to provide that energy that he's clearly lacking. You look at the, couldn't you go, and that is where can you use it? He's best, you watch a lot of wolves, that area is like a sort of basket ball, three, you know, three point Ferrari from that position. He's incredible. Admittedly, a deflection. And I think they need to get a sesco fit and just play in number nine and somehow, they need to work out how for nothing, and who you can play in the 10 positions. And that's how they're going to be most dangerous because at the moment, it just looks a bit disjointed in the final third. And if with the games coming up, that Tottenham game after the International Break, which this podcast will be talking about for the next three weeks, in between Lemphie Barry Glendonin and Quizzis, it's going to be huge. And then, you know, the October and November of the United is difficult games, you know, pretty much every midweek, Champions League games. So it goes Tottenham and then, let's go ahead and do it away, then leads away, then Koma away. If things don't improve quickly, it's going to be a disaster for Carrick, and it's just who else falls with him. If it goes like that, but again, they've got the quality. There are signs that if they can link up on a more regular basis, that the forward line could do something, but yeah, there's bigger problems at play. It feels like. Lars, can I ask you about Fulham? Because I think they look really good at time. I think Josh King is great. They are second-bottom. They've got no wins. They are not a bad side. And it is early in the season, but it's hard to know who is actually bad. Or like, if everyone is quite good, will nobody be adrift? I say, hopefully Tottenham won't be adrift. But do you take my point? These signs down the bottom, you look at the bottom 10, and you go, who's bad in this? No, it's fair. I worry about Fulham for that specific reason. I think they are quite good. I think they do a lot of things. I think Josh Rokin is such a fun, exciting player. Obviously, there's a lot of technical clever guys there. You hear them talk on match of the day. I'm like, oh, you can see what Arbaloa is trying to do in possession. But I hate hearing that about teams that are near the bottom. I think that's a terrible sign, because I think the reality is they've lost so many goals from less season with the people leaving. They've lost so much of the actual output has has gone. And they've not replaced them with anyone with a clear and proper record of scoring goals and making things happen. And it does make me think of something, Brad Hangaland, a Fulham legend once said, is about how if you're Fulham, the second you're thinking about other things, then not finishing 18th. You go into the season, let's make sure we don't finish 18th. That's the important thing. And the second you start thinking of other things, that's when you get in trouble. Historically, that's been the case for Fulham. And I feel like this season, they've got, they've bought some young players, they've bought some guys from Real Madrid, who Arbaloa knows, and there's some nice technical guys in there. I don't feel they spent the summer wondering, how are we going to make sure we're not finishing 18th here? I think they're doing a lot of nice things, but they're not scoring goals, and they're too easy to score goals against, generally speaking, and I worry for them. Best moment of the weekend, possibly Barry is Kevin Shardder, picking up Valentin Branco on the Friday night game, and throwing him into next week. And it is too, it's an oversimplification to say, Brentford, you know, are just a physical team, who bully oppositions. They were physically so much better than Chelsea, but they were so much better than football as well. Yeah, it was a brilliant result for Brentford, you could tell it meant the world to Keith Andrews, which is a barbaric yop on the touch line, into the heavens at full time. They scored from a corner, no surprise there. They scored from a really good counterattack. They scored from a long throw, no surprise there either. But it seemed to surprise Chelsea. Chelsea have now conceded 12 goals in five games. They had chances to go ahead in this game. Pep Chavaria, who I have to say, I had no idea who is this guy. I think that's fair with Chelsea. Yeah, well, it speaks volumes of Chelsea being, well, it's not so much a football club as a player, a trading hall, when they can put out a player who I have to Google, and it turns out he has made over 20 appearances for them, but they all passed me by, I have to say. See, he shot over selfishly when he had three players inside pleading for a cross, and Brentford went ahead through a corner, and that was it. It was all Brentford from then on, and a really excellent win for them. They are physical, but there's more to the game than physicality, as they showed with the second goal, when Damaskar had sent Shad on his way with an excellent pass. He was denied in a one-on-one with Maritini's, and Igor Thiago scored on the follow-up, and I think that's going to be a big goal for Brentford as well, because Igor Thiago scored, it was a 24-25 for them last season. I think this was his first goal this season. His lack of goals was starting to be a bit of a source of concern, but his bagged one going into this interlulf, so that's another reason for Brentford to be cheerful. Yeah, Chabby Lons, I will say, it's not about looking for excuses, but he's been to look at each other, and know that we have to work and improve, because there's still a long way to go. He didn't say, look in the mirror, I'd just look at each other, which is a variation on a theme. But it is interesting. They've let in two goals a game, at least, and Andy Jacobs were away with their tools, but sometimes he was saying, there's a real air of Postercoglu about Alonzo. In the way he's setting the team up at the moment, he may have a plan B. Well, I think the plan B was to sign Danny Welberg and Jordan Henderson to get them through these difficult nights where they experienced and cope with physicality of opposition, and that was definitely not the case. I mean, Henderson, given the ball the way, and let Chelsea get ripped apart on the counter. It is, but Thiago scoring that goal was just left in an ocean of space. He could do it wanted, can't defend corners. It's really worrying, and then having to bring it on a 16-year-old for a couple of minutes to go, I was like, oh, go on, mate. Gee yourself, I'll have a debut in a miserable night out for the club. That shows progress, but yeah, it looks quite weak across the board. He's been given what he wanted, for say, you've got to change your goalkeeper, it's not made a difference. He's got these experienced players, they've not made a difference. And so then, it does come down to coaching. I mean, he'll say that you need more time. Well, of course, yeah. You've got good players. You've got a lot of playing league experience as well, which is, you know, you can turn around and go, oh, well, I've bought, you know, he's not like, I've bought an 18-year-old from France. You look at Jeremy Jacket, Liverpool, he's settled in quite quickly. He goes down to coaching, and this is what Alonzo's got a big, big few weeks ahead where he's going to have to plot coming back for that game with an actual functioning defence, because, you know, you've got the quality in the final third. So as long as you get the foundations right, you could be okay, but clearly, the nervousness that it's caused at the back is effect running through the team, because, you know, you can have to, as a striker's goal free, you know, maybe Brian, probably will be, you know, will be interested in them as well, to level things up with the Missville defence. But yeah, it's not great considering what was promised. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because that front three, you think, you just thought, I mean, I don't know, I thought with no European football, you know, I had the much higher at the table than now, I think they'll be. But there is plenty of time, of course. And that'll do for part two, part three, we'll rattle through the other games. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So comments, you got their first goal, first win of the season. I wonder when they'll win away at nothing of forest. And the goal from Jay De Silva, Barry, what a brilliant, what a brilliant first touch that is. Kowals, Karra Rushworth and Gold for a big boost with a diagonal up towards Jay De Silva on the left wing, takes it down superbly, leaving Daniel Moonoskis in his rear-view mirror, and then sits cells down, scores a lovely goal. And he's first for Coventry in a hell of a lot of appearances. Yeah. Which surprised me. And I just kind of presumed he must have been banging them in in the championship last season, but it's first for them a really, really good goal. And then Bobby Thomas was called upon to make a brilliant clearance off the line to prevent Igor and Jesus equalizing for forest. And then for a sort of equalized through Jesus, but it turned out he'd filed Urenki in the buildup, clipped his heel, and caused him to fall over in a series of installments. And if that failed, hadn't been given, I think Urenki looked an awful clown, but he was tripped. I didn't spot it in real time, but so hats off to Vera for picking that one out. Yeah. But good process. I think, yeah, Coventry deserved a win. It's been common. They haven't been as bad as some of the results suggest. And Frank Lampair was clearly tripped a bit afterwards, and why wouldn't he be? Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think that times have played really well in pretty much all, like even the five notes of Brighton, they played well before they conceded. No goals for forest at the city ground. So far this season, as James Park, Newcastle beat hold 2-1. Lots of injuries Newcastle have. They raced at this two goal lead, Lars. And I feel like James Park is the most likely place for this to happen. I have nothing to back it up, but sometimes everyone. Players, fans, Tanoi, person, ball boys, they're all just so up for it. They can just win again before it's started. It does seem to be a place that has a real energy and that this is more than just one of those things that you say. I also think the whole city approach of just kind of sitting back in a low pressure all the time, like sometimes they can hold out 90 minutes, sometimes you can't. And the problem is, yeah, if you concede very early, then suddenly it becomes a very, very difficult game. But Newcastle really needed this, I thought, because actually, while early results were fine, they got that draw against Liverpool, they beat Dr. Tottenham, but they were not very good against Bournemouth, and obviously they got tunked by a lead. So this going into this mammoth international break, they needed something positive. And I thought you could tell by the way the team came out that they were determined to go out and get something. And when you have a two-neil lead, I think it's a really difficult position for a whole to be in for the rest of the game. You know, I did push on and are they good, like created a little bit, and they still have something about them, because other promoted size might have crumbled at that point. I really enjoyed, Malik Tau was in the box, and had about five players he could cross it to, but in a real centre-back mode, just absolutely hoyd the ball out of play. Thoroughly enjoyed that. And I quite like Zorba Thomas, sort of brilliant rugby ankle tap for the penalty. Lots of people thought it was a soft penalty. I thought that is just a foul. He's just, he's done it with his hand, and not his foot. So it just looks a bit odd, but a big win for Newcastle. Will, can I take you to the hill, Dickinson, Everton, one episode, he's still Everton unbeaten. Another goal for TN, I've buried David Moise with his squad of four players, is doing every remarkable job. It just shows that experience will get you a long way. You know, not a massive amount of tinkering happens at Everton. They're not a big needless to say. They're not big in the transfer market. It's quite a surprise when they manage to sign anyone, and a lot of disappointment around the club at the end of the window and rightly so. But he knows what he's doing. Obviously, if TNO Barry does get injured, I mean, no one will know what they're doing. Yeah, he's got a well-organised team. He's got centrebacks that have been there for a long time. That pairing, pickford behind, in the length of it, he's having a really good season. And I'd argue some of the best midfield, central midfield is going in the Premier League in terms of James Garner has been very consistent. What you have to give credit to David Moise is that even at his age, he is providing new levels of ingenuity to his players. Because if he's taught that to TNO Barry of how to chest the ball in, you've got to give it to Moise. Some people might think he's a dinosaur, but he knows it. He knows it. He means it. I think he means it will. I'm still on the fence. I still think he's trying to get out the way, and it just happens that the limbo stick that he's going under is in the perfect place to allow the ball to hit his chest and go in. I looked at this and saw here's a goal that our Barry could have scored in the Premier League, scored by a man named Barry, and I thought this was wonderfully appropriate. Bath? I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the day. I think people are, because it's here in O'Barry, people are saying, I can't have meant that, but I'm giving him the benefit of the day. I can't do, can see value in Will's argument. But I think you have to give him the benefit of the day. And I thought it was very unlucky to have a second goal, ruled out as well, a really good header. Because Brennan Johnson was standing in an off-side position, he was a judge to be impairing the actions of keeper who made no attempt to save the ball and couldn't possibly have saved the ball even if he tried. But that's just the letter of the law prevailing over obvious common sense. The same thing happened not quite as blatantly, but to Sondland in their game against Brentford when they had a baller and had a goal ruled out. That wasn't going to be saved because Kevin Dansell was a judge to be impairing the Kevian Keller's view. Yeah, I think that should... The law needs change and they're rather than... I agree with you. But we should also talk about Fitar with as well. Yeah. I mean, on the worstides I've ever seen. It's absolutely... When you're on a yellow, yeah, it is... All these young footballs practicing, you know, Fitar with a nice winger, all these skills. Take a few minutes each week on the training ground to learn how to dive properly. With all these cameras around, you can't be that amateur about it. You've got to draw the defender in, you leave a leg out of Sondford. Don't jump before he gets there. The Everton Legs, generally, big and long legs, there's something to get touched by generally just hanging about, you know. If the goalkeepers are getting all these stats on where the people put penalties, someone should have the stats at the length of leg of Everton players and know when you dive. Good point. Good point. Josh King got very harshly booked for a diving experience. I agree. Manchester United. That was... I wouldn't want a stain on my record for simulation if I wasn't a diver. And I think Josh King, I would want that yellow struck from the record. Yeah. McGuire saw put his arm out. It sort of could have been a foul. Probably it was just a nothing, but not a booking. Liverpool won at Bournemouth. This was not a classic loss, but I don't know why. I wondered when we were on the radio when the team used to come out. Liverpool had, you know, Barca Lodgack-Permvert's head behind ESAC. They had a midfield turn, McAllister and Sobber's line. I was like, blind me. That is attacking. And I was like, either they will be opened up or they'll score a bucket load. I didn't have drab 1-0 as my prediction. No. No, I concur. But I thought sort of one of the keys to this game is what Van Dyke said in the post-match interview about how they end up going longer with the passing than they would normally want to or that Bournemouth wouldn't necessarily want to. I think they know one of the things Bournemouth did very well under Ereola that they'd continue to do well under Marcarosa is punish teams who are trying to do this sort of intricate build-up stuff. They set pressing traps for them and they tried to dispossess them and attack very quickly. I think obviously being coached by a guy who was part of putting that in place, Liverpool saw that coming and I think they had kind of decided we're going to go more long. This obviously makes it harder to create chances because you're not building up the play properly and it gets a little bit more random but and it becomes not a very good game of football. But they get the one they'll win that they really need. It's another goal for Lalex Andriza who's starting to look like something resembling the striker. They were hoping they were signing for all that money. And I just think, yeah, when you're betting in a new manager for one of these top teams, you need a few of these, like slightly potentially banana skinnier way games to go your way without you playing brilliantly. So I don't think this is actually quite valuable win for Liverpool. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, you said you'd need you wouldn't need more than 17 seconds to describe this match. So start the clock. Leeds very pedestrian after Monday nights, hammering of Newcastle and Crystal Palace for a lot better organized and I've seen this season no real troubles at the back on Dominic Calvert, Lewin Chance, Palace. If they'd edged it, would have been just about to serve, but overall. Thank you, Will, I would say it was shit. Okay. You were there just to point out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My life's got terribly wrong. Was the match for it longer than that? So was that just kind of what you submitted? I did message the editor at the end and said, do you want to cut this word count by a hundred? We could, we could love that. Could you just say listen, the game was bad. I'll just give you eight words. Put them in really big font, please. We had a bit of a chat beforehand and it is on record. I just sent to it. He said, there's never been a classic lead to the palace game that I can remember. No, but I'm sure you know, there's plenty in this one, plenty going on and I just mess you at the end, but this will be Neil Neil. And yeah, there it was. Anyway, elsewhere, Tonham put seven past palace and Arsenal, held a surprising draw at home that this is the WSL before you start wondering which Tonham did this. You can find about more about that with Faker, other Suzy Rack and guest in the Guardian. Women's football weekly, that's out tomorrow. We'll be back tomorrow as well to discuss West Ham, Milwell and it's very glad I wasn't in that crowd of West Ham fans all celebrating Giddyly because it looks just more aggressive than I can cope with, but they look very happy and angry at the same time. We'll do the England score as well as we build up to the 16 year international break, but that'll do for today. Thanks everybody. Thank you, Barry. Thanks for having us. That's yours, Will. Thanks, Max. Thank you, Lars. Thank you, Max. Football Weekly is produced by Royal Simon and tyre, but the executive producer is Joel Grove, and yeah, back tomorrow. This is the Guardian.